Comments on: Frankensurface http://barking.roaddog.com/2005/10/31/frankensurface.html Damage done from nearly three decades in the roadie biz Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:13:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Mac Kerr http://barking.roaddog.com/2005/10/31/frankensurface.html#comment-162 Mac Kerr Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:39:04 +0000 http://barking.roaddog.com/?p=187#comment-162 MikeyP, there are 24 faders on one layer, what did you have that made you put stuff you needed at the same time on different layers. In 24 faders of a DM2000 you can put 5 stereo playbacks (3 VTR, Instant Replay, Laptop) 2 lecterns with primary and BU mic on each, 2 stereo computer feeds for PowerPoint sound, and 15 RF mics. This could all be routed to matrixes via groups. If there is a band, up to 24 channels of it can go on layer 3 routed to the matrix via the stereo bus, with a mute group including the stereo bus, giving you a handle on the top layer for level and muting. Utility stuff like all the SM announce mics can go on layer 4 where you don't need to go much. There are 34 corporate inputs on the top layer, 24 band inputs on layer 3, and 2 or 3 inputs on layer 4 for a total of about 60 channels. How much more did you need? Mac MikeyP, there are 24 faders on one layer, what did you have that made you put stuff you needed at the same time on different layers. In 24 faders of a DM2000 you can put 5 stereo playbacks (3 VTR, Instant Replay, Laptop) 2 lecterns with primary and BU mic on each, 2 stereo computer feeds for PowerPoint sound, and 15 RF mics. This could all be routed to matrixes via groups. If there is a band, up to 24 channels of it can go on layer 3 routed to the matrix via the stereo bus, with a mute group including the stereo bus, giving you a handle on the top layer for level and muting. Utility stuff like all the SM announce mics can go on layer 4 where you don’t need to go much.

There are 34 corporate inputs on the top layer, 24 band inputs on layer 3, and 2 or 3 inputs on layer 4 for a total of about 60 channels. How much more did you need?

Mac

]]> By: Christian Seger http://barking.roaddog.com/2005/10/31/frankensurface.html#comment-161 Christian Seger Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:23:36 +0000 http://barking.roaddog.com/?p=187#comment-161 Milkey, when I had to have access to multiple handles that lived on different layers of the DM2k I would use the and entire layer as a "group controller". Basically all of my inputs resided on the first two layers of the desk. The most often grabbed channels were fader grouped together with a dummy channel per group on the last layer. A kind of homebrew DCA layer. Obviously there are limitations here, but once the mix was flowing and nothing needed a lot of tweaking I was able to stay on the last layer and hit my cues for the rest of the night. Christian Milkey, when I had to have access to multiple handles that lived on different layers of the DM2k I would use the and entire layer as a “group controller”. Basically all of my inputs resided on the first two layers of the desk. The most often grabbed channels were fader grouped together with a dummy channel per group on the last layer. A kind of homebrew DCA layer. Obviously there are limitations here, but once the mix was flowing and nothing needed a lot of tweaking I was able to stay on the last layer and hit my cues for the rest of the night.

Christian

]]> By: Mikey P http://barking.roaddog.com/2005/10/31/frankensurface.html#comment-160 Mikey P Thu, 03 Nov 2005 23:16:42 +0000 http://barking.roaddog.com/?p=187#comment-160 I think Dave is quite right that we aren't there yet. I've stated before that there's a feature that I would like on a surface, almost like a DAW with unlimited bands of PEQ on each input. But others may not see it this way. Mac, I'd really have to disagree with you on the DM2k thing. I haven't found the DM2k to be all that. I find the lack of a HPF, mute groups (the 2k version on there don't count), and DCAs. I really can't wait to see and use the M7CL because I really hated not having all the faders available at once on the 2k. This has really bitten me on corporate shows, needing to access lavs, podiums and playback on different layers all at once. Maybe I could have set something better up with groups, or DCAs if they were available, but alas no. Is there a way of working on that console that makes it more manageable? Mac, I know you like to use vertical pairing to fit more inputs ala stereo playback onto one layer. -Mikey P I think Dave is quite right that we aren’t there yet. I’ve stated before that there’s a feature that I would like on a surface, almost like a DAW with unlimited bands of PEQ on each input. But others may not see it this way.

Mac, I’d really have to disagree with you on the DM2k thing. I haven’t found the DM2k to be all that. I find the lack of a HPF, mute groups (the 2k version on there don’t count), and DCAs. I really can’t wait to see and use the M7CL because I really hated not having all the faders available at once on the 2k. This has really bitten me on corporate shows, needing to access lavs, podiums and playback on different layers all at once. Maybe I could have set something better up with groups, or DCAs if they were available, but alas no.

Is there a way of working on that console that makes it more manageable? Mac, I know you like to use vertical pairing to fit more inputs ala stereo playback onto one layer.

-Mikey P

]]> By: Mac Kerr http://barking.roaddog.com/2005/10/31/frankensurface.html#comment-159 Mac Kerr Tue, 01 Nov 2005 14:31:38 +0000 http://barking.roaddog.com/?p=187#comment-159 Those are all good points. I think there also needs to be flexibility in connecting to the outside world. I think the mic pre in the surface metaphore's time has passed. I don't care whether the mix engine is in the surface, or backstage, but I don't want to have to run heavy copper cable. Yamaha finally went to an outside company to develope a fiber system for the PM1D, I hope they don't take as long to address that issue on the rest of the line. Digico, Digidesign, EAW, and A&H all seem to get the importance of digital signal transmission. As we want more and more features, the operation of these surfaces gets more and more complex. A simple way to protect settings while allowing others to load will be a tough nut to crack, I think. I continue to be amazed when people balk at using layers. I find it a much easier way to navigate a large board than dragging my finger along the tape lable to find the channel 4' away. In comparing the new Yamaha M7 console against the DM2k that it is supposed to supplant in the live market, I'll stick with the DM2k. If they could have just added DCA's to the 2k it would be a much nicer console. It offers so much more than the M7, just not DCAs. The one point I disagree with is the touchscreen. I have yet to find a usable touchscreen interface. I know you like the D5,and I don't, but the M7 has the same problems. The screen is too small with too much information on it. This forces the touch area to be too small, and too easy to miss. Backing out through the screen you hit in error does not speed up the process. We'll see when the EAW console comes out if the larger screen, with less information density solves the problem. At AES I had a demo of the DD Venue that conviced me I did not want to use it. It is a shame that AES is so sales oriented that all they want to show you is all the flash and trash. A week after AES I had a 2 hour private demo that showed the board off much more favorably. There are a lot of really nice features there. The scene programming is not up to a PM1D, but the Venue competes with the PM5D, where it's capabilities are very competitive. I'm all for more digital control surfaces. :) Mac Those are all good points. I think there also needs to be flexibility in connecting to the outside world. I think the mic pre in the surface metaphore’s time has passed. I don’t care whether the mix engine is in the surface, or backstage, but I don’t want to have to run heavy copper cable. Yamaha finally went to an outside company to develope a fiber system for the PM1D, I hope they don’t take as long to address that issue on the rest of the line. Digico, Digidesign, EAW, and A&H all seem to get the importance of digital signal transmission.

As we want more and more features, the operation of these surfaces gets more and more complex. A simple way to protect settings while allowing others to load will be a tough nut to crack, I think.

I continue to be amazed when people balk at using layers. I find it a much easier way to navigate a large board than dragging my finger along the tape lable to find the channel 4′ away. In comparing the new Yamaha M7 console against the DM2k that it is supposed to supplant in the live market, I’ll stick with the DM2k. If they could have just added DCA’s to the 2k it would be a much nicer console. It offers so much more than the M7, just not DCAs.

The one point I disagree with is the touchscreen. I have yet to find a usable touchscreen interface. I know you like the D5,and I don’t, but the M7 has the same problems. The screen is too small with too much information on it. This forces the touch area to be too small, and too easy to miss. Backing out through the screen you hit in error does not speed up the process. We’ll see when the EAW console comes out if the larger screen, with less information density solves the problem.

At AES I had a demo of the DD Venue that conviced me I did not want to use it. It is a shame that AES is so sales oriented that all they want to show you is all the flash and trash. A week after AES I had a 2 hour private demo that showed the board off much more favorably. There are a lot of really nice features there. The scene programming is not up to a PM1D, but the Venue competes with the PM5D, where it’s capabilities are very competitive.

I’m all for more digital control surfaces. :)
Mac

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